IBB: Politicians are our problem

Former Military President Ibrahim Babangida seldom speaks to the press. But each time he does, he grabs the headlines. When JIDE ORINTUNSIN met him recently, he spoke about electoral reform, President Umar Yar’Adua, the late Gani Fawehinmi and global economic meltdown. Excerpts:

We have just concluded the Ramadan period, what lesson do you think we have learnt as Muslims and as a nation?

The Ramadan period has afforded us the opportunity to reflect on a number of things. One, our relationship with God and with other people in the society and it has made us appreciate that God did not create us equally and that we have a duty to the less privileged in the society. The period equally taught us how to respect ones feeling, views and religion and to live in peace and harmony in one another.

Nigeria like every nations of the world is under the heavy burden of the global economic meltdown. As a one time President of this country, what in your view is the way out?

I think the situation requires a number of efforts. It needs the efforts by government, efforts by the leadership of this country, the private and the public sector’s efforts. What goes for Nigeria is that we are very innovative as a people. All we need is to put on our thinking cap and get our acts together and work towards a more vibrant economic development.

Don’t you think that the meltdown hit us more because our leaders lack good foresight?

The recession is a global problem. One thing triggers the other and the most important thing for us is to learn lesson from the meltdown and make sure we don’t fall into that trap again. I don’t think it is a question of lack of foresight, but that of leadership. I have been trained as a military man all my life and as a Commander; my job is to instil confidence on every body that we will eventually win the war. We may have problems and casualties as we move along, but as a leader, I will always say we will make. I think it is a problem of leadership.

The financial sector no doubt plays a vital role in the revival of any ailing economy like ours. How will you assess the policies of Lamido Sanusi, the new Governor of Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN)?

From my experience of this country, for every genuine and sincere measure you took, for every major policy that you make, give Nigerians a day, they will read meaning to it. Before you know it, people will start to read southern or northern agenda to it. That is typical of Nigerians. On the other hand, they will say it is a Muslim or Christian agenda. If you are able to go through that, they will probably say it is Hausa/Fulani or Yoruba agenda. I have always advised that if you have a conviction or you believe that what you are doing is right, then go ahead. I think there are many opinions in Nigeria as there are many people in it. Just go by your conviction. With what the CBN governor is doing, I think he meant well and I know it will be well for the country.

President Musa Yar’Adua has embarked on an electoral reform, what do you think is wrong with pervious electoral policies, vis-à-vis your own electoral policy? Must we always dust the books?

That is an interesting question. During our time, we looked into the electoral systems that obtained from independence to the time we introduced Option A4. We were able to see how elections were conducted; we were able to see what went wrong with some of these elections, so we sat down and decided on how to stop and solve the problems. We then resolved that certain things must be done. Firstly, we resolved that the ordinary man must feel he has a stake, that he has a say. Secondly he must know that his vote counts in determine who governs him, either at the local government, state or federal levels. We tried to simplified the system and make it more transparent and I am glad it worked

But it seems the present system is devoid of these virtues of transparency and simplicity you just spoke about; people believe that the present electoral system has a lot of flaws….

(He cuts in) I think you guys (media) will have to educate and enlighten the people about this. We have enormous information and researches available to us, but I think we have the tendency to try to re-invent the wheels all the time in this country. If not, why do we not want to accept what worked when it has worked. If it has been there for long, fine tune it, if we must, but to start new thing every time has been our problem. We don’t have to loose the nuts every time.

Another area of concern is that of who midwife the new reform. Many feel INEC under the Chairmanship of Prof. Maurice Iwu should not be allowed to conduct the February 2010 Anambra State election. What is your take on this?

My take is that Nigerians are yet developed in our respective minds about how elections are run. It is like soccer match; you either win it or lose it. If you win, so be it. You have that responsibility ahead of you, the promises you made to the people must be fulfilled. If you lost out, you should be contented. Go back and try next time. This how best to do things, but the win at all cost syndrome has eaten deep into our national fabric

But what happens when a candidate is denied of his or her mandate?

You have the court and the tribunals

Are you saying courts and tribunals are the ideal organs to determine election results?

It is not the ideal. I quite agree with you that the courts and tribunals are not the ideal, but the psychology of the people have to change towards this.

So, in essence you are exonerating the system and you are blaming the electoral flaws on the players (Politicians), even when there heaps of allegations against INEC, painting the electoral body as a bias umpire

.

Let us consider the developed democracies of the world. For example, India, with over billion people and over 600 million registered voters, they still conduct their elections and they do it well. Our problem in this country is that our politicians are not honestly working as hard as other politicians in other countries of the world. There the politician goes out to appeal to people to win elections, but here the elites are in control. I am sure you that people like you (the reporter) and some of your elite friends hate the idea of queuing to vote. Those of us go out to vote are doing it for publicity. We all in most cases act it, to give the ordinary man the impression that we are for the system, but thousands of elites don’t want to queue to vote, but they want to decide the outcome of elections.

Can we talk about the outcome of all the meetings you have been holding in Abuja, Kaduna and here in your Hill-top residence? What are Nigerians expecting from these meetings?

I am equally hearing about the meetings like you. A friend of my called and sent me text that he heard a lot of meetings are going on and asked why I left him out. I asked him to tell where and when the meetings are holding. I told him I was dead serious I am not in picture of any meeting and asked him to tell me where the meetings are holding for me to go and report (he laughs). According to them, the meetings are always holding in Kaduna, Abuja and my Hill-top residence. That is Nigeria for you.

You mean you are not aware of any meeting

No. I am saying it emphatically that I am aware of any meeting. I am not involved in any meeting; my friends are not involved in any meeting. To the best of my knowledge, there were no meeting in Abuja , in Minna, Abuja and Kano .

Reports have it that your admirers, supporters and former boys in the military who are now retired are the ones behind the meetings.

(Cuts in) Fortunately for me, they have not come to tell me. So, I don’t know.

But we learnt that they are converging in Minna on the 1st of October to come and persuade you to run for Presidency come 2011 general elections.

My friend, don’t forget you and I have been living in Minna and this is not the first time that such a thing happened and you know my stand. That is life for you my brother.

But sir, what gives you the impression that this time you will not cave in to their pressure?

No. normally, I don’t cave in to pressure. Don’t forget I have 32 years experience in uniform. I am trained to be tough all the time. I cannot cave into pressure. I will rather cave in to sound argument and sound reasoning.

What if by October 1st, they are able to provide you with sound argument and sound reasoning?

I have experience, may be strength. I will be glad to impact this knowledge on those of you coming after us and because they have respect for me, being my admirers, I think they will accept and respect whatever I want them do.

Recently the human right activist and lawyer, Chief Gani Fawehinmi passed on and some members of his family accused you and your administration of complicity in the infection of his lung which culminated into cancer of the lung that eventually killed him.

It is sad that Gani’s family could be thinking like that. I was not the judge that sent Gani to jail. I was not involved in any of his interrogations. It will be wrong for anybody to accuse me of what I know nothing about. I want to believe that the family of late Gani are Muslims like me and because they are, they should believe in what God said in the Holy Quran, that every soul should taste the pangs of death (Kullu nasfsin za,ikatul mautu). If they believe in that, then I don’t have problem with them, if not then, it is their problem. I am happy I have bore my mind about Gani, even before he died. I did not eulogise him like some people are doing after his death. It is wrong of the family to link me with his death.